Alykhan Velshi and Mahathir Mohamad on moderate Muslims (and the Pope)

Jihad Watch has a dialog between Alykhan Velshi ( a “moderate” Muslim) and Robert Spencer regarding the Pope’s speech on Muslims. Here is the key part of Levshi’s argument:

The problem with Benedict's speech, and it's illustrated perfectly by the quotation I cited above, is that it gives moderate Muslims no option other than to renounce our faith.

And here is the key part of Spencer’s reply:

What I have asked again and again of Muslims who identify themselves as moderate is this: that they acknowledge to exist, and renounce definitively, the elements of Islamic theology that jihadists are using to wage war against non-Muslims around the world. Instead, most of those who are known as moderates simply deny that these elements of Islam exist at all. I'm sorry, but that is not reform. That is deception. In the 16th century, the Protestant Reformers didn't say, "The Church has never taught Transubstantiation and anyone who says otherwise is a hatemonger." They said, "The Church teaches Transubstantiation and it should stop doing so." Why is something like that, mutatis mutandis, too much to ask from Muslim reformers today? Why is it too much to ask that they say, "Jihad violence and the subjugation of unbelievers has been a continuing part of Islam, and we now reject it," instead of denying, in the teeth of the evidence, that these things are true at all?

And one of the comments to the post made a point that needs to be made regarding Muslim leaders:

"Velshi's contention that "Muslim" need not be modified by "moderate" because it is redundant amounts to an assertion that Islam itself is moderate, i.e., peaceful and tolerant. It is interesting to note that Mahathir Mohamad, the "Jews-control-the-world" former Prime Minister of Malaysia, has just made essentially the same assertion: "There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim," he said. "We are fundamentalists in Malaysia. We follow the true teachings of the religion and the true teachings do not teach us to bomb and kill people without reason."

The last two words in that dissertation give lie to the so called religion of peace. If you are not Muslim, or if you refuse to allow Islam to rule you, or if you say something they don't like, that gives them the reason they need to justify your killing. Whenever Muslims make these statements and add these types of qualifiers, they should be asked to explain in detail so we can see the differences.

Read the whole thing.