The administration - and their supporters in the press - claim that it would have taken more than 7 hours to move troops from one city to the other, too late to do any good. Here is the press in full cover-up mode in Morning Joe. See the tape at the 5:05 minute mark. There people have no idea of the distances involved.
Looks like along distance, right? Well it is if you decide to walk or drive, but in an F-16 capable of 1500 mph it's not all that long. But what is the distance? From Aviano to Benghazi is 1043 miles, beyond the range of an F-16 if it has to return to base without loitering over the target. But do you notice the island just off the toe of the boot of Italy? The island is Sicily and the US has a Naval Air station there at Sigonella, about 1000 miles from Aviano and only 468 miles from Benghazi. To fly a couple of F-16s from Aviano, refuel them at Sigonella and fly cover for the besieged defenders at Benghazi should be the work of between 4-6 hours, including getting the planes and pilots ready at Aviano and do a refuel in Sigonella.
The Obama administration never even had the planes take off.
We have only considered the logistics involved in bringing US Air Force assets to Benghazi. What about the US Navy? The United States has maintained a naval presence in the Mediterranean since the early 19th century. The Sixth Fleet is stationed in Naples, Italy and usually has at least one aircraft carrier as well as up to 40 ships and over 150 aircraft. There is no reference to any action taken by the US Navy during the attack (see timeline). Because of the vulnerability of aircraft carriers they usually keep aircraft on patrol. Why was the Navy not called in?
Part of the answer lies in the fact that no one was called in for a rescue mission. The US military had ground forces in Tripoli, air forces in Italy and naval forces in the Mediterranean, none of which were deployed to come to the aid of the people under attack in Benghazi. If the attack had only lasted a few minutes and the terrorists dispersed after a brief firefight, the lack of a rescue could be explained. After all, to use a police analogy, when seconds count the police are only minutes away. But the attack in Benghazi lasted for nine hours. Long enough and more to send help.
The Obama administration's response can only be explained as either incredibly ineptitude or a deliberate decision to leave the besieged personnel in Benghazi to their fate for political reasons. In any case, the excuse that help could not arrive in time is totally false, as is so much of the administration's story around this event.
14 comments:
Excellent post!! I spent 22 years in the Navy with two tours on an Air Craft Carrier making multiple Med Deployments... One thing you learn is, as soon as something happens globally, the president's first question is, "Where are the Aircraft Carriers?"... And low and behold, liberty port cancelled and the carrier is hauling ass towards trouble. I am having a hard time believing a carrier wasn't available to provide direct support to Benghazi or even at the minimum, provide in flight refueling for other aircraft... This administration is out for itself and its own socialist agenda. Like my wife says, "I love my country, but the government scares the hell outta me!"
Get serious Virginian. It is obvious you are not familiar with airplanes or how the military and the government operates. As the time line goes the consulate received a call that the annex was under attack at 2140 hours (9:40 P.M.) Do you seriously think the White House was notified that at, say 9:41 P.M.? But to give you the benefit of the doubt and say they were notified immediately. The CIA, Department of Defense, State Department and most likely others would have to be notified and a meeting arranged to discuss what could be done. Again, for the sake of argument let's say that happened immediately and they decided to give the Command at Aviano AFB, Italy the mission to launch the F-16's with ordnance to quell the terrorists. First of all, the Commander would have to notify the squadron Commander, the Air Base Commander, etc. The squadron Commander would have to call the pilots in, the aircraft maintenance people, ordnance crews, and since this would be in the middle of the night it could take quite a long period of time since they most likely were not on Ready Alert expecting a bombing mission. The commander along with those in a higher command would have to determine how to configure the aircraft The F-16 aircraft might have to be downloaded if the equipment was not compatible for the mission and ordnance loaded along with external fuel tanks. Coordination with Airborne Tankers might have to be arranged along with where the fighters and tankers would have to meet. If this could be done under 4 hours I would be amazed. Also, you talk about the F-16 being able to fly at 2000 miles per hour. That would be in a clean configuration and in afterburner. No fighter is going to remain in afterburner long with external stores unless he is planning on a very short flight. (Note: If I am not mistaken the F-4 would burn all of its fuel in approximately 14 minutes in afterburner and I doubt seriously if the F-16 would last much longer). With bombs, possible ejection racks,external fuel tanks we are talking about flying below supersonic speeds. I would venture a combat radius with 4 /1000 lb. bombs at not much more than 300 nautical miles. From Aviano AFB to Benghazi you are looking at approximately 1045 miles one way with a flight time of approximately 2 1/2 hours or more especially if they have to tank several times. If you are talking about landing at Sigonella, Italy than you are probably looking at extending that time by at least an hour. Also, once the aircraft arrive on station who and would be controlling where they drop their ordnance? If they are dropping bombs close to the annex, especially 1000 lb. bombs they probably would do considerable damage to the annex itself and might kill our own people. From experience I know that fragments from a 500 lb. bomb will go out 3000 feet. A 2000 lb. bomb really cleans out the area. Additionally, you are talking about creating an international incident when you drop bombs in another country. Finally, we are talking about a team of six CIA security agents who went to the annex and departed at 11:30 P.M. under heavy fire without the body of Ambassador who was most likely dead at this time. So, in conclusion, I believe a rescue mission from Aviano, Italy was not practical in assisting those in those compound and could never have gotten there in time.
I was in the Med on the Saipan (LHA-2) and the Ponce ... there was ALWAYS a reac. force ready. so you can blow smoke all you want to @ 2nd anonymous. as per getting the planes ready...lol you've obviously never seen a ship in full operational mode have you...I'm guessing not.
Semper Fi
the Air Force has ships now?
or is the Navy buying old F-16s?
What you seem to not understand is that 2000 miles is the ferry range of an F-16 fighter. That means, a one-way trip and carrying nothing but external fuel tanks. No weapons of any kind. The combat radius (meaning flying to a target, attacking it and flying back to base) of an F-16 while carrying 4,000 pounds of bombs for a ground attack mission is just under 300 miles. So no, flying them to Benghazi to stop the terrorist attack was not a realistic option.
And to our anonymous alleged Navy veteran, there were no carriers in the Mediterranean at the time of the Benghazi attack. The closest carriers were in the Persian Gulf, leaving Benghazi far beyond the range of any of their aircraft. If you really served on an aircraft carrier, you should know something about their speed. They can steam at no more than about 30 knots or 35 mph. It takes days, not hours, for a carrier to get from one part of the world to another.
Anonymous,
While you are correct that an F-16 laden with 3000lb bombs has a significantly reduced combat radius, its ridiculous to state that this would be the package loaded...these are terrorists soft targets in open fields...its laughable you think the package would be 4000lbs of bombs. Reality is that an F-16 with external tanks loaded with 1 500 pounder and a full complement of 20mm ammo for its cannon is all that would have been needed. Put two on site and they could have blown masses to bits, strafed the crap out of the area and the rest of the surviving terrorists would have been peeing in their pants running away. Heck a fly by would have scared the crap out of them after they had already witnessed what happened when Gaddafi's goons got bombed and strafed. The F-16s could have easily refueled at the navy base on the way...while in the meantime, there are tankers that could have been deployed from either the Navy or AF from nearby ground bases to refuel the F-16s when they got to Benghazi. Even if they flew one way, once they dropped their bombs, they could have gotten close to bingo fuel, zoomed to altitude and did a min fuel descent into Tripoli - one way trip. BTW, Avaiano, like nearly EVERY fighter base overseas would have had a crew or crews sitting on alert response...its minutes, not hours to get one off the ground. As a Navy vet, you don't know jack about F-16 ops.
Just wondering, why wouldn't they fly unladen between Tripoli and Sicily, pick up heavy ordinance there, then fly loaded into Benghazi?
Tell me something where exactly is the C-130 coming from , also I've never seen a C-130 on alert status
First of all, do you all think it's a great idea to openly discuss your views on our military capabilities and locations? I recognize our enemies have entirely to much intel on us without your help, but it does seem reckless.
Secondly, regardless of whether or not an aircraft with bombs could reach the location "in time," my question is in time for what? The enemy and the personnel in need of rescue were in the same location. I'm not asking you to publish your ideas on what could have been done (in fact, please don't. I'd rather not give future enemies better ways of planning for our reactions to attacks). I just think trying to show of the knowledge that your own special unique time in the service gave you by arguing a moot point is silly at best, and at worst contributes to our political distractions as voters and to the knowledge our every day enemies have about how we think, respond, and execute.
Very true... these ass clowns obviously have no real knowledge of how QRF's operate.
The men and equipment were ready, they were simply not allowed to deploy.
I was stationed in Aviano Italy as an aircraft Mechanic. It is 24 hour coverage. So yes we could have supported Libya. We also have external tanks that leave the jet with 12k lbs of fuel, no need for refuel.
Yes, I know this is an old posting. However, I feel the need to counter some disinformation.
Anyone who says that the enemy and the US personnel in the same location, and so ordnance couldn't be employed, is wrong. They seem to have little knowledge about precision weaponry, and also seemingly never heard of the countless times American aircraft have delivered ordnance "danger close" in various parts of the giant sandbox. Also, for the guy who never heard of a C-130 on alert status, I'll simply ask "WHAT?!!"
I was in the Army in the early 80’s, Stationed in Germany. When a alert was called we were ready to go in about 30 minutes. All that was left to do was stop by the ammo depot pick it up and go. Did Obama so decimate our combat readiness tat this was no longer possible?
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